Why Uncertainty Is Your Biggest Competitive Advantage — Scott Stirrett

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[SPEAKER_00]: uncertainty is a muscle that needs to be trained in.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Even if you have a positive relationship with uncertainty today, everyone needs to constantly work at building their uncertainty muscles.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The ability to cope with uncertainty is a skill.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Jason Mark Campbell Business Podcast, where we explore what it really takes to sell, lead and grow a business, and ultimately live well.

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[SPEAKER_01]: In every episode, we go beyond tactics to discover how entrepreneurs and leaders across different sectors are growing with love, impact, and integrity.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back, everybody, to the J.S.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Mark Campbell podcast.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Conversation today is going to be really important for anyone who finds that uncertainty and fear has been dominating your thoughts.

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[SPEAKER_01]: If you haven't had a bit of a detox from the news, it seems like the more we pay attention to it, the more it gives you reasons to freak out, whether that's prices of oil, things happening in the Middle East, jobs being taken over by AI and you name it, there's something else hidden to headlines that creates uncertainty, anxiety, making you think, wow, am I in the right path?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Am I doing the right career?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Am I still going to have a job tomorrow?

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to take a breath together here and we're going to see that perhaps the fact that the uncertainties in the air could be your unique competitive advantage.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This is exactly what we're going to dive into with Scott Sturd here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was an entrepreneur, author and community builder, whose career has been shaped by the single question, how do people and communities grow and thrive in a volatile world?

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[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter if we're talking about AI or systemic changes that are happening around the global economy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He is going to help us see where we can navigate these changing times and how to use it in a way that empowers us and does not cripple us and paralyze us.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's the founder of Venture for Canada.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's a national platform he built over a decade to help early career professionals develop skills, networks, and judgment to move forward in these conditions.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And he has been able to support over 10,000 young people, raised over $80 million and has worked with partners such as the Employment and Social Development

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[SPEAKER_01]: And just recently as released, the uncertainty advantage, it's a research bag guide to turn his volunteer into a competitive edge for AI-driven careers, has been endorsed by Eric Rees, Sukinder, St. Cassidy, Armandalang, and Michelle Romano.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And his been an prolific writer who has worked has been featuring global mail, business insider and fast company.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're very excited that he's joining us today.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Scott, welcome to the show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for having me on.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like everyone's ready to hit a panic button today.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Is that just a small segment of the population or is this a sentiment we're seeing across the whole country right now?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Many, many people are struggling with anxiety, and this is everyone from young people, according to some studies, the rates of anxiety that's been medically diagnosable, has gone up several times for teenagers over the last like 15 years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it also applies to people of many age groups, seniors, parents,

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're living in times that are really rapidly changing and with a lot of change, there can come a lot of anxiety and I think in my work, one of the most important things that anyone can do is learn to embrace the uncertainty in the world because we don't choose the era that we live in, but we can choose to develop a better relationship with uncertainty.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like one of the biggest things that comes up in these and certain times, especially for the older generations is like, oh, I wish things were like in the good old days.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like we almost want to cling to the past as opposed to embrace the current times.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What are some of the dangers that would happen if you this is the mindset you're embracing today?

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[SPEAKER_00]: because the current times aren't changing so quickly, and I think to double-click on that, the defining aspect of our era is the rapid change that we live in.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Centuries ago, people could have lived a pretty similar life to their parents or their grandparents.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Today, because of the rapid rise of new technologies, AI being one of them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're living in times that are moving so quickly.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that if you're anchoring too much in the past of like 30, 40, 50 years ago, you're the potential to be left behind.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That being said, I think some of the things from the past that are valuable to carry forward are values, morals, like there's certain things that are worth studying from human history or from different faith traditions.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But I think getting overly stuck in how things were done in the past in terms of technology or ways of working really puts a risk of someone becoming obsolete.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I know we're probably going to talk about some of the things to embrace in the coming years, like the technologies that are worth paying attention to, that the new habits that are worth building, but I kind of want to throw a bone to the older generation as well.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I was going to ask through your research, what are we're, like, particular competitive advantage that would come from people's habit that we had maybe in the 90s, maybe before like the key traits that if you've had them in the past are still going to be very useful in today's time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Human skills, the ability to work with other people, the ability to communicate effectively, the ability to focus all of those skills were important 50 years ago and they are important today.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And in some ways I think these human skills are even more important today, because of the rise of AI, and impact that AI has on a lot of technical skills.

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[SPEAKER_00]: One of the main things I talk about in my book, the uncertainty of antage, is that it's important to double down on becoming more human, and on developing the general skills that allow you to stand up and to continue to thrive in the workplace.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because ultimately, in a rapidly changing world, your general skills are not going to be automated, but your technical skills are way more likely to potentially go away.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, good to know.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's a movie I'm thinking about.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you've seen it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's Robert De Niro and Anne Hathaway and Anne Hathaway is like the CEO of a startup in Silicon Valley and he's just like really old guy who comes into the business and he brings a lot of these like classic pen and paper, human to humans, slowing things down and there was a lot of comfort that came from that movie

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[SPEAKER_01]: about like, yeah, I can be more human and this is going to be still a relevant skill.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It seems like you're echoing this sentiment and is something that we should not discard and try to go full digital here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a great move.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's called the the intern.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, to double-click on that, absolutely.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think that investing in one's general skills and some of these timeless skills that were important hundreds of years ago is more important than ever before.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes in our more digital or AI-driven world, it's easy to get pulled into spending a ton of time in developing technical skills.

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[SPEAKER_00]: In general, we've lived in a society that over the last 100 years has placed more and more of an emphasis on specialization.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And to listeners I would encourage you to be intentional about what is it like one general of skill that you can focus on so you can become 60% better at that in the next year.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That could be investing in public speaking course.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That could be really focusing on becoming a better team player.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But one takeaway for listeners I really recommend is be intentional about developing your human skills.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They're not going to just become better without you putting the

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[SPEAKER_01]: All right, I love that we have that straight and, you know, on the guy around selling with love.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So to me, is to get people understanding that selling human connection is still very relevant skills.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So you've not, you've not tuned into the wrong place, but I would want to shift gears into seeing, okay, we understand that there are some emerging technologies, there are some emerging skills we need to develop in today's age, where does one begin if you're feeling that level of intimidation of things that are changing and

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[SPEAKER_01]: it almost feels like every week I'm supposed to switch to a new system because something cool and new and shiny just came out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think there's a balance because you need to be on the lookout for new changes in technology and I think people do need to adopt new technologies that a quicker pace than in the past.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And at the same time, people need to focus on some of the general skills that make them more human and make them stand out against AI.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And while the fourth pillar of my book is all about the importance of general skills, it's to say that technical skills aren't unimportant, and in some ways I think that the most impactful people are those who are going to balance technical skills and capacity with the ability to work with other people and have some of these more timeless traits.

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[SPEAKER_00]: In my view, I think that the general skills in aggregate are going to become more important than they were in the past.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But that's not to say the technical skills are going to become unimportant or useless.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I have a hypothesis, and maybe through your research you can validate it, is particularly in the field of getting started as a business owner.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I noticed the bias, and only from the time I was active in career, maybe from the 2000s to now, if you had some strong traits and competency in the technical skills of marketing,

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[SPEAKER_01]: and sales, and getting like the web marketing, like getting yourself to run ads on Facebook, to be able to deploy websites, optimize conversions, understand how to write copy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: All of those technical marketing heavy skills would disproportionately advantage you so much into playing field, particularly if you were in the in full product space, in the coaching space, if you were just getting started as an online entrepreneur, like that was the skill that was needed.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I find myself

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[SPEAKER_01]: imagining that with this AI innovation is going on, the playing feel is being leveled out, where you don't need to have such deep marketing bias skills to get ahead.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right now I'm seeing and I'm, this is my secret wish as well, so my bias is definitely loaded, as I'm seeing people that are more ententful about.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The impact they want to make and having their heart of caring for people are not necessarily going to need to have that special skill to be able to stand out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's being leveled out with AI and as long as you're someone that cares someone that has the heart in the right place, you're going to be making moves in the right direction.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Does your research support any of the hypothesis that I'm proposing here?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I think that a lot of the more routine kind of technical skills that were needed for success, so for instance, some of the marketing ones that you mentioned, I think that those were

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[SPEAKER_00]: And now with AI, I imagine, and I'm not an expert in that specific kind of skill set, but AI probably lets you automate a good chunk of those activities.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it becomes more of a kind of judgment, and the ability to discern maybe what is the best strategy, but a lot of that execution can be done by AI or AI agents.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's all to say is that I think that that taste is still really important in the AI-driven world discernment is really important, but then the execution work and some of the more tactical skills are less important.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The challenge is, is that how do you learn that discernment?

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[SPEAKER_00]: It is partially through the experience of developing the skill set.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I think there's a challenge for people beginning their careers because there's perhaps a less of an opportunity

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[SPEAKER_00]: Last and the opportunity to develop that judgment and there was 10 or 15 years ago.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I've definitely skewed my conversation towards the older generations, but I'd be curious about what are the unique challenges aside from lack of experience has always been an issue for the younger generations.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Are you seeing that the bears are even higher now?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Because we have all that AI that automates the basic work which you could have had as an internship to learn new skills, like is that what's being removed here?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a lot of studies show that there is an impact on young people from AI, in particular that young people entering into careers in AI exposed industries are seeing the negative impacts and that youth unemployment rate is elevated in Canada and the US than what it's been historically.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's all to say, as I do think that AI is and will likely continue to have a negative impact on young people's employment outcomes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: More so in white-collar work, I think a lot of blue-collar work, interestingly, is...

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[SPEAKER_00]: better protected because it's in the physical world than bodied world where as am now, at least for the foreseeable future, AI is likely to have less of an impact.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like a home care health aid, it would far, far away from having a robot kind of take over that kind of work, at least I think in the short term.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, all to say is, I mean, interesting, I think some of the most kind of like socioeconomically privileged from like a compensation standpoint, young people who would be accustomed to earning high incomes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Those are the people who I think are often suffering the most in the context of AI and the changes on the economy.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe to bake them are specific, like some of the rules I think are vulnerable are it's like auditors or bookkeepers or even some legal kind of rules.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Although interestingly, law has continued to be higher a lot of people through these AI changes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I anticipate that even some of these white-collar professions like lawyers, you may see a contraction in the number of people working in those fields because of AI.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Fair enough.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the until the robots come, the blue colors are safe.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I remember maybe around like five, 10 years ago, Gen Z was coming into the workplace.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And they were like a digital first type of generation, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Because millennials kind of had the analog to digital transition.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So they've had kind of a bit of a bridge.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously before that was a full analog now, digital kind of forced on them.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The Gen Z that we're digital first, they really thought, you know, from a digital perspective that brought a unique flavor into the workplace.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm wondering what is that kind of unique skill set that you get when you do attract somebody who might be even after the Gen Z in today's age if AI is in place.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Is there a unique competitive advantage from the younger generation?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I imagine that there will be, in the same way that when we were kind of growing up at number, there's the term more like digital native, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Was a term, I think, used in like 2,000, like 7, 2010, into the 2010s.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that you're going to have similarly, like AI native, you know, people, people who grow up with AI and are extremely comfortable with it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and potentially have a more sophisticated view of it just because it's something that they've already always like kind of unknown.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think some of those people could have an advantage.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's really going to be interesting to see people born in, let's say, like 2021, 2020.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And what their childhoods look like when they enter into the workforce in like 20, 38, 20, you know, 45, like are they entering into the workforce in a fundamentally different kind of way?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's really hard to anticipate the impact of a large platform technology like AI on youth development and in the same way that I think the impact of the COVID pandemic.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a really interesting question, Jason.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I do think to the point on uncertainty, I have no idea what the impact exactly will be, but I would say that they're highly likely is going to be some kind of significant impact that will bring both advantages and disadvantages.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Again, for some reason, finding myself drawn towards media enders game was like a book where they would work with kids to command fleets of shit because they could like rapidly connect things and command and they they like I imagine almost like a minority reports scenario we're getting towards that really quick where we have like screens everywhere we're talking to our Jarvis and like

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like the younger generation will probably embrace that way better where like my generation's going to be like oh too much stimulus too much ADD I can't do this and so I could imagine something like this but again uncertainty is at the base of all of this and you know going back into the fundamentals of what you wrote like you saw this as an absolute advantage and I kind of want to bring it back for any person or any generation you know to flip the script on this uncertainty where most people are seeing it as a place of anxiety you see it as an advantage

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[SPEAKER_01]: What are the specific advantages people could be paying attention to that might take away the anxiety and make it look like, hey, there's actually optimism and possibility here?

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[SPEAKER_00]: The number one thing that determines whether you have a positive relationship with uncertainty or negative is whether you view uncertainty as a positive thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and I think if you see uncertainty for all the joy that it can create or even if you sometimes think and recognize that everything amazing in your life comes from an uncertain situation.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That, essentially, if you can see the possibility and uncertainty, you're much more likely to be able to develop, I think, a healthy relationship with it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And some of the reasons why is I think one thing that I talk about in my book or six kind of core pillars of advice on how to ultimately learn to develop a better relationship with uncertainty.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that includes first the importance of self compassion, second the importance of adaptability, third the importance of anti-fragility, fourth the importance of an entrepreneurial mindset, fifth the importance of general skills, and sixth the importance of network building.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's to say all of these things combined, which is viewing uncertainty as a positive, can really help you build your uncertainty muscles to thrive in a rapidly changing environment.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like you labelled it deliberately as a muscle, which makes me think there's this is a capacity that needs to be trained.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Totally, uncertainty is a muscle that needs to be trained in.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Even if you have a positive relationship with uncertainty today, everyone needs to constantly work at building their uncertainty muscles.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The ability to cope with uncertainty is a skill, and I've seen it in my own life like I, when I was 22, I quit a job of Goldman Sachs to go find venture for Canva, and that was really aggressive and bold move of diving into uncertainty.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Likewise, in COVID, I was diagnosed with obsessive and compulsive disorder and really struggle with uncertainty.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And today, I'm now doing new entrepreneurial things, launching a business, and some ways leaning more into uncertainty than in any other point moment in my life.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's all to say is that in my own lived experience, our relationship with uncertainty absent flows.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And even if you're really afraid of uncertainty today, you can learn to develop a better relationship with uncertainty over time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen myself.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I almost thought this was an era where in my early 20s change everything all the time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Always excited about change.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Then I get a little older and I'm like, oh, I'm like feeling like that grumpy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: As the kids would say, boomer energy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: where I'm like, oh, I don't want to change.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I like what I like.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I hear you saying that you've had a phase of being like that, but then you've nurtured going back into embracing uncertainty.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So for anybody who's feeling overwhelmed by change, the fact that it is a muscle that can be trained is very hopeful.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I'd be curious to know if there are certain habits or things that we can do if you're feeling really intimidated by anything that's new change.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What are the baby steps to kind of start leaning back into it and see that you want to bring back that fire?

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[SPEAKER_00]: The first example that I'll really lean into is the importance of building your risk-taking muscles.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, core to managing and living in an uncertain environment is making decisions and highly uncertain kind of situations.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And essentially, what is out of that is risk-taking.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the way you build your risk-taking muscles is gradually think about taking one risk at a time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And over time, like you're working a muscle in the gym, building that risk-taking capacity.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So let's bring this home to a listener.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say you are a solo printer and you are running your own business.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And let's say there's a new business line or type of client that you're interested in selling to.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, one of the things what you can do is go out and, you know, send a bunch of cold emails to try to, like, test and like build your, your risk taking kind of capacity.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You put yourself out there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that there's many ways that kind of over time, you can build your risk taking capacity.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you, you launch a podcast.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you start putting content on TikTok.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If you haven't done that before.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And,

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[SPEAKER_00]: All of these things gradually can increase your ability to take risks.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And our lives are not defined by one big risk.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They are defined by the 10,000 little risks that we make over a lifetime.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And if there's one piece of advice that I have on really learning how to thrive in uncertainty,

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[SPEAKER_00]: It is to gradually build up your risk-taking capacity and to really underscore one thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't about taking reckless risks or missing your whole livelihood, but it is about within the context of your situation learning to take smart risks and gradually increase your ability to take advantage of all the opportunities that are out there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I find the way you explain risk reminds me also in personal growth how we often talk about stepping outside your comfort zone.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's really about the fact that we get comfortable with what we have and we don't want to get uncomfortable, which is limiting our entrepreneurial spirit.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like particularly for those who are going out entrepreneurial, this probably is like five times more important than if you're in a career path because you need to be embracing which you need to be doing things uncomfortable all the time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I listened to a podcast recently of the founder of Harvey, which is one of the top legal tech kind of AI companies, and he was talking about every week he tries to do something that makes him uncomfortable, like really physically uncomfortable, and in terms of pushing himself out of his comfort zone.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And when he does that, he knows that he is advancing in terms of his career.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And,

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[SPEAKER_00]: In a world that is quite chaotic sometimes, the only way out is through.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What I mean by that is the more that you try to run from uncertainty, the more that uncertainty begins to control you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why we're taking this so important.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Is it's not about trying to control your external environment.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually about learning to view uncertainty as a friend.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And in some ways, learning to almost seek out uncertainty.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's not to say like joy, joy rides, and being reckless.

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[SPEAKER_00]: really facing uncertainty head-on.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Not as a as a foe, but as a friend and to really emphasize that famous Robert Frostline, the only way out is through.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, on this podcast with so many people, I've had these conversations and debates about the importance of mindset for anything of success, and every time we always realize it's underrated, it's controlling so much more.

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[SPEAKER_01]: for anybody, then anybody's given it credit, even as we're emphasizing it highly.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So like, if the mindset is around, oh my God, this uncertainty, it's chaotic, you're like paralyzed, you're not doing anything about it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so what I can see from the book is you're giving some strategic pillars that you can nurture to be better at navigating uncertainty.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But at its foundation, you're talking about just changing that fundamental mindset with uncertainty.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And the moment you do that, everything kind of turns into possibility

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[SPEAKER_01]: And that can be done at any age.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, even if you're just starting, obviously you just have to just jump, but you don't know anything else, so just run with it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But for the older generation, it was like, oh my God, this is like, I was like, it's almost like we're resisting because we had our, we plotted our own expectations.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And now it's not going according to plans, so we're pissed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then certainty is a friend that follows us throughout our lives, like whether it's people having kids or dealing with aging parents or dealing with illness, like we always are dealing with uncertainty.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And young people do a lot of uncertainty, but old people deal with a lot of uncertainty too.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So being intentional about building an uncertainty practice is important throughout our lives.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Alright so now I wanted to dig a little bit more about that AI space because this is obviously the thing that seems to be the most relevant for people's workplace like AI is coming.

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[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people are feeling the uncertainty is truly like job uncertainty, career uncertainty or business uncertainty because a lot of these things are getting replaced.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have certain words of advice for somebody who needs to embrace this tool?

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[SPEAKER_01]: They see it as something that's like,

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's not going anywhere.

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[SPEAKER_01]: How do I start at least healing my relationship with perhaps using this tool or at least navigating the fact that it exists?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I was reading an article this morning, and I was talking about a month's Gen Z that I think 18% of American Gen Z like have a positive view of AI.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I think AI is going to become an increasingly polarized issue.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it seems like AI is becoming increasingly unpopular.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I was recently speaking at an event and I was kind of more pro-AI, and I wasn't really talking about AI, I was talking about uncertainty.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I could tell immediately

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[SPEAKER_00]: All to say is that I think viewing AI for the positives that it can bring is really important because like any technology there are lots of positives from AI and there are a lot of negatives that can come from AI.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's important to recognize those two things.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, you as an individual, how can you use AI to make yourself more effective and to make yourself, you know, more high agency in the word of that is often used a lot right now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that's to me that the single most positive thing on AI is the agency that can give people.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's many things like legal negotiations and Manusha and like specific kind of topics that I wouldn't have been able to do years ago if it wasn't for AI.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like AI has enabled me to do a whole slew of things that I normally wouldn't have been able to do.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So what I recommend for someone who maybe

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[SPEAKER_00]: Think about how can AI empower you to actually do more or do more at a higher quality, that it's not about becoming a servant AI, it's actually at that emphasis on agency and choice, and how does AI give you more choice, give you more agency in your life?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think that that's important for healing people's relationship with AI.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You use the word agency a lot and I kind of want to pull the string on that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What does it mean to gather more agency?

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[SPEAKER_01]: And what does life look like when somebody gets to have a lot more of it?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Agency to me is the ability to you see a problem or you want something alive and you like go after it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you don't say, okay, I'm going to let someone else solve that or I'm just frustrated.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You really have a huge bias towards action into solving a problem.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that something's so important, like you can have someone really smart, but if they're not high agency, they're going to be much less successful.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think just viewing yourself as a problem solver and seeing the potential impact that you can have on the world is really important even.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes, recently, when I was dealing with a challenging situation, I was like, okay, well, I'm going to focus on what's in my control, and I'm going to take agency and act in terms of the situation.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the trajectories of those who have high agency are very different often than those who are have low agency.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And unfortunately, I think AI is going to maybe increase the divides between those who are high agency and low agency.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because low agency people I think have more mobility to get.

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[SPEAKER_00]: pull the long or manipulated by AI or to accept locality AI outputs to have their skills atrophy through over a reliance on AI versus I think high agency people have the ability to come even more effective because of AI.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I think in some ways it's more important to be high agency today than ever before.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I find that the opposite of high agency is probably something we use more in the personal growth field, which is victim mindset.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like if we're seeing uncertainty, we're seeing AI, we're seeing the world is happening too awesome.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing we can do.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're just a victim in this scenario.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That leaves you to be pretty powerless, and, you know, I've definitely have seen that, wow, when you start looking at AI as like, oh my God, this is the single-handedly best tool that has allowed me to manifest more than ever had agency in the problems that I faced.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'll tell you, for me, I've had a situation where I was like, oh my God, I...

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[SPEAKER_01]: I wish I could have a beautiful tool to allow people to, you know, estimate how much revenue potential they have if they purchase my product.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And with AI, I could actually design a widget that could do all that, which I would have needed a developer or learned as like, or buy some saw.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I did this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And like, mind you, I was, I was completely new with AI.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't really know how it happened.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I overspent a whole lot of my AI tokens on this platform, okay?

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I bet one of the most sophisticated tools and I spent about a hundred dollars.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like that was the overspend that happens.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, wow, while I went to play with this tool and wasted a lot of money, that was a hundred dollar waste.

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[SPEAKER_01]: If I would have went out to use a development team or to sign up to some SaaS, this could have been thousands of dollar waste if I wasn't clear on what I wanted.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And now I'm like, oh my god, even if I go waste my money and waste my time with AI, I might just be a couple hundred dollars down, but the things that I've learned in doing it and the output that I was created with it was amazing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's one of the things I'm hoping from the conversation we've had here that everyone listening here is that this is risk taking like this is what happens when you start embracing it is there's so many beautiful things that are on the other side and I'm sure you have a dozen stories of hot ways that you've played with it and you've been just amazed with the results.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, totally.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I started using AI for so many things like I feel like AI is such an integral part now of my daily life like from AI, no takers to brainstorming with AI to helping AI draft so many different things like it saves me time and ultimately let's me do a lot more in the day because it makes me a lot more efficient at so many different things and I think having

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[SPEAKER_00]: play around with this and try to figure it out is so important in the context of of AI.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I mean, I think that that's it sometimes it can be overwhelming to one of your early points because there's so many tools out there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So sometimes it's also having the reasonable expectation and you can't do it all.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, I think trying to build a practice of like, okay, every week, what's one new AI thing that I can kind of try or learn or kind of experiment with is I think a good practice to have perhaps one of the most important skills of learning to develop a really good relationship with AI is learning to learn and building your learning muscles over time because it's those who are the best learners that are more likely to take advantage or thrive from old AI tools at there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Scott, I've appreciated our conversation.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I want to make sure that we have a link to your book that I'm going to recommend for everybody who's trying to change their mindset around this uncertainty.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You want to get out of your victim mentality.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You want to become someone with high agency and then you can thrive in these coming times.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Pick up a copy of the uncertainty and vanish.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be available as a link below the show notes.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted to end this conversation Scott with, you know, there's thousands of listeners

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I'd love to know from you taking the time writing this book and putting this all together, what is the most ideal outcome you look to see from people that have chained your book and have applied its principles?

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[SPEAKER_00]: The most ideal outcome is that you have gone from someone who is maybe uncomfortable with uncertainty or just like has a mediocre relationship with it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: To you're someone who is actively seeking out and certainty in your life.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that could mean you're taking risk of work, you're applying for promotions, you're starting businesses, you are living a life that is more

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[SPEAKER_00]: full with potential.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you realize in the full potential that you can potentially achieve in your life.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And my personal mission and life is to help others achieve their full potential.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think helping people learn to develop a better relationship with uncertainty is one of the most effective ways that I can help people do that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Scott, thank you for your work, thank you for your contribution in creating the book.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for coming on the show and sharing your wisdom for everybody tuning in.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Once again, we're going to put a link in the show notes.

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[SPEAKER_01]: If Netist certainty is something you need to train the muscle which you can, then maybe one of the first steps is picking up the books so you can go through this see that it's not as scary as sometimes we make it out to be.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to see regardless of the changes coming up.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to be one that is equipped with navigating it and thriving through it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Once again, the uncertainty advantage available now, grab a link in the show notes we can get that vote in Scott.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you once again for coming on to show this was an absolute pleasure.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for having me on.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening to the Jason Mark Campbell business podcast and of course, keep selling with love.